The Institute of Ibn Mandhoor **************************** جامعـــــــة ابـــــــن منظـــــــور

An online forum dedicated to the teaching of the Arabic language. Contact: ibn_mandhoor@hotmail.co.uk


You are not connected. Please login or register

Intellectual thinking

View previous topic View next topic Go down  Message [Page 1 of 1]

1 Intellectual thinking on Sat Jul 11, 2009 1:13 pm

Please dicuss what you believe is the meaning for the three statements given below.

Please do not look up the answer as that will not only spoil it for others but for yourselves as well. Learning Arabic should be done using your intellect. Use what have you learnt and apply this knowledge.

لاتَأْكُلِ السَّمَكَ وَتَشْرَبُ اللَّبَنَ

لاتَأْكُلِ السَّمَكَ وَتَشْرَبِ اللَّبَنَ

لاتَأْكُلِ السَّمَكَ وَتَشْرَبَ اللَّبَنَ


The last will prove difficult but the first two should get you thinking.

View user profile http://onlinearabiclessons.blogspot.com/

2 Re: Intellectual thinking on Sat Jul 11, 2009 1:47 pm

الماس

avatar
طالبـــة ابـــن منظـــور
طالبـــة ابـــن منظـــور
Assalaamu alaikum

Ok here's what I think:


لاتَأْكُلِ السَّمَكَ وَتَشْرَبُ اللَّبَنَ - Do not eat (imperative with kasra for vocative harmony) fish (object) and you drink ('are drinking' - all 3 statements are regarding 1st person masculine) milk (object).

لاتَأْكُلِ السَّمَكَ وَتَشْرَبِ اللَّبَنَ - Do not eat (imperative with kasra for vocative harmony) fish (object) and (here 'and' is implying 'but') drink(imperative with kasra for vocative harmony) milk (object).

لاتَأْكُلِ السَّمَكَ وَتَشْرَبَ اللَّبَنَ - Do not eat (imperative with kasra for vocative harmony) fish (object) and (here 'and' is implying 'as well as/or') drink milk (object).


Wassalaam

View user profile

3 Re: Intellectual thinking on Fri Jul 17, 2009 1:01 pm

Nurjahan

avatar
طالبـــة ابـــن منظـــور
طالبـــة ابـــن منظـــور
لاتَأْكُلِ السَّمَكَ وَتَشْرَبُ اللَّبَنَ

The literal translation would be ‘Do not eat (imperative, M1) the fish and you [are] drink[ing] the milk

لا is the statement of negation followed by the imperative ‘eat’ which is both the verb and has in it the implied subject which is male singular. Also lam has kasrah for the sake of vocative harmony. السَّمَكَ is in the mansoob form as it is the object. و is used as a conjunction which translates to as ‘and’ followed by the verb تَشْرَبُ which is second person singular male ‘you are drinking’ and the subject is اللَّبَنَ therefore in the mansoob form

If we were to look at the sentence so to comprehend the message within it, the literal translation doesn’t really make sense, and I would say و here is used maybe to say ‘because’ as otherwise we cannot really call it a sentence.

Another angle could be that the sentence is half an imperative and half a question, in this case the literal translation would in fact make sense ‘Do not eat the fish and you are drinking the milk?

لاتَأْكُلِ السَّمَكَ وَتَشْرَبِ اللَّبَنَ

The literal translation would be ‘Do not eat the fish and [You, m1] drink the milk.

Again the fist two words are joined to make an imperative as explained above and و is used to express ‘and’ َتَشْرَبِ is an imperative here to say ‘You Drink’ and the Baa has kasrah for the sake of vocative harmony. اللَّبَنَ is the subject once again, so the male is being ordered to drink the milk.

However, I think you can also see it from a slight different angle, my thinking is coming purely based on the intonation, so for example the sentence can be understood as the literal translation ('Do not eat the fish and drink the milk) but also it could be understood as ‘Do not eat the fish and do not drink the milk,’ by changing the tone of the voice.

In English one can say, for example, ‘Do not eat the food and drink the water and mess the house.’ Here ‘and’ is used to continue the use of ‘do not’ the negation is implied within the sentence and can also be implied via intonation.

In the case of Arabic, if what I have said is correct than the use of intonation or implied words will not change the voweling of the sentence.


لاتَأْكُلِ السَّمَكَ وَتَشْرَبَ اللَّبَنَ

Hmm…now this one, I have no idea about. From what we were taught I can only list a few things which will have the last letter as Fat'ha

1.An object in a verbal sentence
2.A dipote in the mansoob and majroor form
3.A past tense verb
4.A demonstrative pronoun

It seems impossible for an imperative to simultaneously be a object....and at this point my thinking confuses me too much to carry on…



Last edited by Nurjahan on Mon Sep 07, 2009 4:40 pm; edited 1 time in total

View user profile

4 Re: Intellectual thinking on Fri Jul 17, 2009 2:21 pm

الماس

avatar
طالبـــة ابـــن منظـــور
طالبـــة ابـــن منظـــور
الماس wrote:لاتَأْكُلِ السَّمَكَ وَتَشْرَبَ اللَّبَنَ - Do not eat (imperative with kasra for vocative harmony) fish (object) and (here 'and' is implying 'as well as/or') drink milk (object).

On this last one, I'm making a final admission to the discussion, as the arrangement of the حركات has been pestering my brain and harranging my sleep for days like you wouldn't believe. I now have a theory but no knowledge of this particular grammatical construction to back it up. Forgive me, but I think that the 'as well as/or' translation that I inserted is saying quite literally 'Do not eat the fish and drink the milk together' i.e. you can eat the fish but just make sure it is never taken with the milk, the two objects fish and milk are not to be consumed alongside one another (you might want to keep them in totally different fridges too!)

This is my gut reaction to the statement, but chances are I'm way off!


مع السلامة

View user profile

Sponsored content


View previous topic View next topic Back to top  Message [Page 1 of 1]

Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum